Modern Credit Union Marketing Tactics With Mike Rosenberg

Intro: 00:02

Welcome back to the Response Drivers podcast, where we feature top marketing minds and dig into their inspiring stories. Learn how these leaders think and find big ideas to push your results and sales to the next level. Now let’s get started.

Rick Rappe: 00:19

Hey, I’m Rick Rappe, host of the Response Drivers podcast. Here I dive deep with marketing experts and innovators to learn how they approach targeted marketing and use data driven strategies to acquire and retain customers. We’ll talk about what’s working, what’s changing, and how we can stay ahead in an evolving marketing landscape. 

Response Drivers is brought to you by RPM Direct Marketing. RPM helps companies develop hard hitting direct mail and utilize advanced testing and targeting methodologies to reach customers and prospects.

Our goal is to fully optimize your marketing performance to drive more sales and exceed growth expectations. RPM delivers smarter, more profitable direct mail solutions so you can turn your direct mail programs into a predictable, efficient sales channel. Check out rpmdm.com to learn more. 

My guest today is Mike Rosenberg. Mike is the vice president of marketing at Columbia Credit Union, where he leads marketing strategy, engagement and high impact marketing initiatives. 

He’s a results focused marketing executive known for driving growth through bold, integrated campaigns and pragmatic, forward thinking leadership. He’s also a Portland Business Journal 40 under 40 honoree, recognized for his modern approach to brand building and outside of work. He’s a family guy who loves traveling, skiing, and squeezing in a round of golf whenever possible. 

Thanks so much for joining me today, Mike.

Mike Rosenberg: 01:44

Thanks for having me, Rick. Appreciate it.

Rick Rappe: 01:47

Well, take us back to the beginning. What first got you interested in marketing?

Mike Rosenberg: 01:52

Oh, okay. So I guess it kind of has to go all the way back. Kind of one of those. at some point. It was rare people who, you know, went into the field that they studied.

I was an undecided underclassmen at the University of Oregon, and they had this new program that was in the business department, which I was already going towards. Business administration called an emphasis in sports marketing. I was a participant and fan of sports and thought that would be a pretty cool thing to do. This was before it was actually a, a, a minor or a major and was an emphasis. So really my interest started there. 

And you know, when they, they piled, they piled the marketing into the sports piece of it. It’s kind of made it a little bit more interesting for me. So that’s, that’s where my, my sort of marketing origin starts, did sports marketing for a while and then kind of transitioned into more of the, the digital side as we move forward.

Rick Rappe: 02:53

Well, when you look back at your early career, was there a specific moment that you realized like, this is this is for me, I’m really good at this marketing thing.

Mike Rosenberg: 03:02

I suppose so, you know, I was in marketing and in quote unquote sports marketing for, for a long time, but also on the sales side of that for quite a bit. So I started out at our sports commission, which, you know, our, our purpose there was bringing events and franchises and, and quality of life stuff for the economic impact. Right. And so we were really out there getting events, trying to get them in. One of the events we got in early 2000 was the US Figure Skating Championships.

We, we were looking for someone to run that and I probably underqualified, but foolishly raised my hand and they foolishly picked me to do it. And then that kind of transitioned into. Yes, I was managing the marketing of it, but that was also, you know, the event production and managing the staff and, you know, really creating this, this event that was the Olympic qualifier, second largest event viewership to the NFL. Figure skating was back in the early 2000. So if you remember back what was going on, a lot of controversy, huge, huge sport at the time. 

So there was definitely marketing in there. And I learned a ton, you know, learned a lot about the sponsorship side and the sales side of sports marketing and of marketing in general. And that kind of took my path that it was still marketing, sports marketing, but as much so on kind of the revenue like direct revenue generation side, so sponsorships, ticket sales, stuff like that. Did that as a consultant for a few years after that event and really had that pull back into the marketing side of it, right? Was approached by a friend of mine who was starting a SEO agency, a search marketing agency at the time. 

And this was in like 2006 where, you know, 20 years ago, there wasn’t much of an industry. So, you know, we had conversations about, well, how are we going to do this? We don’t know. It hasn’t really been done before. And so not only really the draw, there was the marketing of that company and helping build that company. 

And we did that and we did that to an acquisition, which was was the goal of it. And from there, I enjoyed the the helping others with their marketing in a silo, which was search marketing. But then kind of wanted to expand a little bit into to other types of marketing that, that I had done before. And so joined and joined an agency then that did more on the PR social content side. And doing the marketing for that agency. 

You know, we did marketing for clients, but, but actually, a lot of the things that I took on was the marketing for that agency. I just really, you know, realized that, you know, the stuff that we did was really good. Got good results. And so I guess there’s some time in there kind of went, yeah, this is a feel for me. I’ll stick with it.

Rick Rappe: 05:46

And how did you transition over into credit union or financial marketing?

Mike Rosenberg: 05:51

Yeah. So there was a point in time where I kind of worked myself out of a job there. You know, the things that that we had brought on enough people to do, the day to day stuff that I was doing and kind of looked around and decided that I, that I wanted a change and, and looked at the types of clients that we had and credit union that industry was one that was very appealing to me. I liked the, that it’s a, you know, quote unquote real business. It’s, it’s, it’s buttoned up, it’s proper, but it’s also got a huge community aspect to it.

And community has always been a really big thing for me, you know, serving on nonprofit boards. I’m a member of the Rotary Club here. So giving back has been something that’s important to me. So when I was looking for, you know, going to work for somebody else that was really important is, you know, it’s a, you know, kind of real business, but also had that community piece to it. So, and had done work with credit unions on the agency side. 

So kind of understood what they were all about, which was important to me. Yeah.

Rick Rappe: 06:50

Yeah. Well, when you think about the marketing work that you do for Credit Union for Columbia Credit Union, now, what what are the biggest challenges that credit unions face marketing today?

Mike Rosenberg: 07:04

Oh, boy. There’s quite a few. You know, I think it’s probably not necessarily the first ones might not be unique to credit unions, but just in general, right? You have a million different things. You can do a million different tons of different channels, different strategies.

You can go down limited resources, you know, new tools, lots of new tools out there. What do you need to spend your time and your team’s time and energy focusing on? And what’s going to drive results and are you measuring the right things? I think that that’s one of the big challenges that that credit unions have had. And, you know, there’s other industries that, you know, everybody’s got limited budgets, limited bandwidth, limited team. 

And how do you stack all those up for to, to make the most impact? As well as how do you make sure you’re moving the right needles, right? You know, going back to the, to, I guess, kind of the old days, you know, are you measuring engagement? Are you measuring on for us? Are we measuring deposits and loans, conversion, lifetime value, different things like that. 

And, and being able to know that there’s some places you’re, you’re going to get there relatively easily. And other times you’re going to have to figure it out as you go to, to know what to, to market towards.

Rick Rappe: 08:20

Yeah. Do you think that you’re competing more today with traditional banks or with fintech companies? How do you think about the competition?

Mike Rosenberg: 08:29

Yes. And to an extent, you know, everybody. Yeah. Kind of you know, the the one group that we tend to to take off the list is other credit unions. You know, in the credit union world, for the most part, we’re like, hey, as long as you’re, if you’re with a credit union, we’re happy.

You know, I mean, we, we really believe that everybody should be based on, you know, we’re providing value to our members as opposed to shareholders. You know that the whole ethos of the credit union world. So yes, we definitely look at, you know, sort of the, the big banks or the national banks as, as competitors. And we are, you know, we’re, we’re competing at the product level for different types like that. Most people have relationships with more than one financial institution now for sure. 

Right. So that’s the other thing. They’ll, you know, depending on what it is, whether it’s their checking account or different loans that they have their, their investment services, right? We have services and products in all of those spaces. And so we’re competing with different, different folks in those different places. 

And you also mentioned the fintechs, right? So we have lots of fintech partnerships. We also have competition there, right? So that’s, it’s always a, it’s always a balance. And, you know, we also need to figure out where it is that we fit. 

What is our target audience? What is our target member? Need from us that maybe a big bank or even a fintech can’t give to them, right? So one of the things that we’ve found that we always get high marks on is our service, right? It kind of goes back in that do you need to go into a branch? 

Some people do. Lots of people don’t. So we need to be able to compete on the fintech side or even the big bank side of having all the digital tools that that person needs to be able to bank from anywhere. However, we also know that whether you go in or not, people like to be able be able to go in to know that there’s a branch somewhere within their community that if they do have a problem, hopefully they never will. Hopefully they won’t need to go in. 

You know, I’ve been into our branches many times in the last three years, but not for banking need, right? I the time that I’ve actually needed to go into a bank, maybe you need to exchange some currency because you’re taking a trip or, you know, maybe there’s a fraud piece that you want to go and see some money. But so to answer the question, it really depends on on which aspect of it. And we find it. We find it everywhere. 

You know, it’s, it’s also geographics, right? You know, depending on where, where you’re located for a credit union, what your field of membership can be because we have restrictions in that capability, right? Folks who live in Florida, for example, not automatically able to become a member of Columbia Credit Union.

Rick Rappe: 11:15

So are there any requirements to becoming a member or is it limited or is it completely open? How does that work?

Mike Rosenberg: 11:22

Yeah. So quick backstory for when when credit unions first started. You know, we’re we’re 70, almost 75 years old and there’s others that are older. They were usually started based on a field of membership, like we came out of the railroad. Right?

So it’s a group of people who got together and said, let’s pull our money basically, and we’ll lend it out when we have access. Excess will lend it out to. Those who need it. You know. And when they do, we’ll go back and over time, most of the field of membership requirements have evolved into location. 

Right? So whether it’s a federal credit union that is national, you know, you just need to live or work in the United States. Or like for us, we are a Washington state chartered credit union. So anyone in the state of Washington, plus the four, four northernmost counties of the state of Oregon, so basically Portland area, greater Portland area in the state of Washington is for us. But you know, others have different different fields membership, and most of them now are really are just based on geography. 

And that’s live work. You know, there’s exceptions if you have family there. Yeah. Sort of thing.

Rick Rappe: 12:30

So interesting. Interesting.

Mike Rosenberg: 12:33

Yeah.

Rick Rappe: 12:34

Well, thank thanks for explaining that to me. I want to come back to something you said a minute ago about marketing channels, and there’s so many options today. What are some of the marketing channels that have been most effective for you at acquiring new customers?

Mike Rosenberg: 12:50

Yeah. So, you know, a combination, right? I think that what we’ve found the most effective thing is, I wouldn’t say being in every channel, but having being very targeted and very direct about which, which channels and then who we’re targeting. Right. So, and it’s something that I think every marketing team to some extent struggles with.

And, you know, I think we, we do it better than some. And there’s probably other folks who do it better than us, but we have a lot of data, right? We have a lot of data about our members. We can get a lot of data about folks who aren’t our members and use the things that we find are most effective is when we use that data. And whether that’s demographic data, psychographic data, you know, we build profiles for different types of products. 

So taking those into account when we’re targeting folks. So one of, I think the most successful campaigns we’re doing right now is really a member acquisition, direct marketing campaign, right? And those channels include direct email, social display and direct mail mail, right. So we’re, you know, you’re laying the foundation so that we’re making sure that they see about us when they’re on the internet doing whatever it is they do. If they’re, you know, on Facebook or Instagram or wherever, making sure that and showing those to the folks that based on our data have a propensity for that product, right. 

Obviously within our field of membership too. So there’s some plus and minus to all that, right? Especially when we talk about budget, you know, when we’re doing whether any, any sort of digital or any, you know, direct mail type stuff, we’re already bringing our, our audience down. So I mean, that’s, that’s a pretty easy one. But making sure that we’re getting enough with, you know, new member acquisition. 

I don’t remember what at some point it was, you know, you need 15 touches before a sale or whatever. I don’t know where that is today. It’s probably higher or lower that depending on what channel you’re in, I don’t know. But just making sure that that, that you’re hitting, that you’re, you’re making sure that you’re in front of that target person in the channels that kind of that they choose, right? So we’re, we’re probably hitting most of them in all of those channels, but not everybody is going to be in all of them. 

Not everybody’s on Facebook, you know, that sort of thing.

Rick Rappe: 15:14

So and you’re going after each each channel with a targeted, a targeted audience in mind and not, not trying to blanket and hit everybody with every message. That makes a lot of sense.

Mike Rosenberg: 15:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, looking at looking at, you know, we have lots of propensity model stuff and then we’ll do lookalike audience, right? You know, we according to and we have, you know, 25%, 25% to a third of the, the households in our market. So when we look at ours and then we’ll mirror that to, you know, what is, what is this demographic look like? It’s not a member.

Well, if our members in this demographic, like our high, high yield checking account and CDs, well, it probably makes sense. And it’ll tell us that they will. And then we’ll follow it back and make sure that that that was the case. And it works.

Rick Rappe: 16:04

The capabilities of doing predictive look like modeling have really come a long way in the last few years. We’ve, we’ve had great success with creating them for our clients and, you know, really found huge breakthroughs in performance based on applying predictive lookalike analytics to their, to their market. That’s great. Well, this show is focused on direct marketing. So we obviously are very interested and where our RPM is very focused on direct mail.

You already talked a little bit about how data influences the campaigns that you run. What metrics matter the most to you when you’re evaluating your marketing performance?

Mike Rosenberg: 16:45

Yeah. Ultimately sales, right? So, you know.

Rick Rappe: 16:53

Probably an important metric.

Mike Rosenberg: 16:55

Yeah. Do they, do they take, do they, do they take out, you know, do they take out a loan or do they apply for a loan and, you know, do we fund the loan? Do they become a member? Do they open a checking account? Do they hold a balance on it?

So ultimately, we’re wrapping it back into that, you know, along the way. Of course, depending on on what the channel is, you know, open rates, open rates starting, you know, again, an online application, we’re able to see each step through, you know, are we getting, you know, are we making it easy for them to start the application? Right? We can, we can, we can judge that. Are they making it through the steps? 

Where are they dropping off? Why are they dropping off? So all of those ultimately will help us increase that that end number. And making sure that we’re we’re meeting folks where they are. You know, we still also have some of the old school stuff, especially on the direct side, you know, we’ll include a QR code so we can see if they’re there, you know, going to start their journey that way digitally, but they can also go search. 

And hopefully we’re we’re hitting. That’s the other side is if they’re going to go search, hopefully we’re going to hit them. Not only will they find us, but yeah, we might we might show them more reasons why they should join us while they’re in their decision journey. We even have, you know, we even still keep it anecdotal enough to, to know when people are bringing in a direct mail piece and saying, hey, I got this. You know, we, we, we aren’t constantly, but we go down the route when we’re doing a, a promotion or an offer, you know, of doing a good old referral code. 

Especially when it’s, you know, a high value offer where they’re getting, you know, a cash incentive to open an account. You know, we want to tie that directly to actually the person that we’re sending it to. Right? And then that’s a, that’s a assuming that they, they actually bring it in, right. So whenever you bring that type of it isn’t that complex, but complexity into it. 

Then oftentimes you’ll get that, oh, but I forgot the, I forgot the, I forgot the, the mail or, you know, somebody maybe is if they don’t come in through the QR code and it automatically puts a code in there, someone in a branch is typing it in. Well, it’s really easy to, to miss, miss an X for a G or whatever it is. So making sure that an as a service organization, you know, we want to, if someone you know, lets us know, hey, I use the code, but we messed it up, we’re not going to say, oh, whoops, sorry. Because on the back end, we know, right? It’s, it’s, it’s attached to their name already. 

So being able to do kind of old school plus new school in that capacity is very helpful.

Rick Rappe: 19:30

Yeah. Making sure that you have a proper attribution to the right channel is so important to being able to evaluate the effectiveness of what you’re doing and make good decisions moving forward. Right? Right. Are there any surprising insights you’ve discovered through studying and looking at all the data?

Mike Rosenberg: 19:51

Oh my gosh. Yes. It seems like almost every day I just reply back to one of our partners on an email. We were in a meeting with a partner and I said, you know, I don’t, I don’t think that, you know, I don’t. Yes.

It was one of those where, where we’re, you know, sort of turning the knobs and, you know, something one, one channel was or one product was for performing particularly well. Right? And it was like, yeah, that’s performing well, but is it at the detriment of this other product? I’m not sure that we, you know, we really want that. And then went back and talked to that business line and looked at the data and went, oops. 

You know, followed up with, hey, I’m sorry, I was wrong. It happens. Actually, please do turn that back up. Because, you know, the data was surprising. You know, I, I think that it happens more often than not that when you follow the data, I feel like you’re going in the right way. 

But sometimes, yeah, we get we get fooled. But that’s the, you know, I think that’s the, the reason that you, you continue to, to look at it and validate an ongoing basis and hopefully having a relatively easy way to do that, at least in snapshots. And, you know, then you can dive in when something kind of raises the eyebrow and you’re like, what happened there?

Rick Rappe: 21:06

Yeah, well, it sounds like you’re very in touch with the data and what’s happening in the and the you’ve made all these, all this data accessible and, and easy to work with, which is really, really good.

Mike Rosenberg: 21:18

Yeah. I’d like it to be better. You know, we’re still, we still have in lots of different places. I think that, you know, I, I’m sure it’s not unique to us or our industry. But you know, when you you have I mean, we’re a relatively small team.

So we partner with other organizations and other agencies and other technology partners. And, you know, they, they aren’t all, not all the data goes into one place. Like that’s the, that’s the goal and what I’m where I’m trying to steer. Steer us towards. But they also sometimes say different things, which you’re like, how is it it’s data. 

It’s not supposed to say different stuff, but you know, the classic on for a, for a financial institution is, you know, when you’re talking about loans or you’re talking about when it’s funded, are you talking about when it was approved? You know, just change how, how, how many loans came in or what the balances are different, things like that. So it’s a constant struggle. We don’t have it figured out.

Rick Rappe: 22:12

But yeah.

Mike Rosenberg: 22:14

We know it’s important. So we keep working on it.

Rick Rappe: 22:16

I was just I was just working with a client yesterday and a consultant that the outside consultant firm that they hired, and we were all looking at the same data. And the three different organizations came to three totally different conclusions, all looking at a really good point, right? Like, oh, okay, I guess we gotta wrestle and figure this one out here. It’s a little. 

Mike Rosenberg: 22:40

Yeah, it also depends how you interpret the data, right?

Rick Rappe: 22:42

Totally. Yeah, totally. Three different points, three different ways of looking at it. Can came to three really, really distinctly different conclusions about how we should go out with direct mail and the cadence that direct mail should be sent out at and, and how the targeting should be done. It was just completely apples and oranges.

Yeah, it was very interesting.

Mike Rosenberg: 23:03

So what do you do in that situation?

Rick Rappe: 23:06

Well I try yeah. I try to understand where their point of view and where they’re coming from. And if I, if I can learn something, great, you know, I am definitely not going to be close minded to other people’s ideas in that situation. And then I think, you know, it’s, it’s also important for me to share my point of view and how I looked at it. And I mean, I’m basing a lot of what I do on 30 plus years of experience in direct mail.

And, you know, I’ve sent out billions of pieces of mail and done a lot and a lot of a lot of testing over the years. And I want to defend my point of view and my approach as well. So and then we just obviously the client ultimately gets to make the final determination about what they want to do. So yeah, we’re working through it. It’s definitely makes makes things interesting.

Mike Rosenberg: 23:58

Right? That’s kind of.

Rick Rappe: 23:59

Yeah, that is the fun part for sure. Well, you’ve already talked a little bit about integrated marketing. I was going to ask you what integrated marketing means to you today, but I think you’ve already sort of talked about that a little bit, the importance of surrounding your prospect with all the different channels so that they see you in whatever, you know, in whatever channel they prefer to, to look at and to interact with and engage with.

Mike Rosenberg: 24:26

Yeah. Ideally. Right. Making, you know, meeting folks where they are. Making sure that. You’re, you know, providing the solution to, to their problem in the place that it, that it starts that conversation. If you’re talking about acquisition, right? Yeah. People, people are going to be in the right state of mind to, to make a change or to do something different or new in different places. So yeah, making sure that you’re there and, you know, ideally being able to, to make it easy, you know, channels part of that, you know, that that predictive piece is part of that.

Of course, you got to balance the, the creepy side. I think it’s still there a little bit, but I think for the most part, people get it like, you know.

Rick Rappe: 25:06

Yeah.

Mike Rosenberg: 25:06

We’re just, we’re just trying to help.

Rick Rappe: 25:10

How do you balance short term marketing performance with building long term brand equity?

Mike Rosenberg: 25:18

I think just making sure that we’re we have that brand equity in mind all the time, you know. I think that it’s, you know, we’re, we’re. We do things the right way in pretty much everything. I mean, not pretty much in everything. We do things the right way and make sure that we’re executing on the mission of the organization.

You know, I mean, ultimately, we’re, we’re in a position where we’re trying to make life better for our community and for our folks and provide financial wellness. And we think that we’ve, we’re creating the right products and tools to do that. And so, you know, sometimes you can, you can, it’s about prioritization more than than, you know, I guess that’s kind of how I think of the short term, long term is to make sure that you’re continuing to do the things that keep the lights on when something shiny comes in the room. You know, we, we still spend, you know, we’re going to spend some time, energy and effort on the new things because the new things eventually might become standard. But, you know, we talked about direct marketing and, you know, direct mail, like that’s a old school standby that has been very, very successful for the credit union industry. 

So, you know, if we got too distracted and, you know, something new in, in social or influencer or AI, SEO and weren’t taking care of that brand, making sure that we’re in the market and that the folks still know that we’re there, you know, and then on the credit union side, a big piece of it too, is we’re not all about acquisition, right? We’re about taking care of the folks that we currently have to, you know, it’s a constant because everybody else is trying to acquire them, bring them over, especially when you’re talking about being the preferred one. So having that checking account where, you know, it’s your payment center and your direct deposit paycheck goes into. So making sure that we’re always meeting their needs and of course, letting them know about the things that we have that maybe they don’t have or, you know, I mean, one of my favorite things that that that we do on a, on a kind of regular basis is we’ll look at. So we have different types of checking accounts, right? 

One that earns high interest on it and one that doesn’t. They’re both neither one has fees. There are a few reasons that folks would be in the one that doesn’t earn interest, but really it may just be that they signed up for before we had it or, you know, their situation has changed. And so we’ll put together a list of those members to reach out to, to say, hey, there’s a better product for you. Does that benefit? 

Like now we’re going to be paying interest on the deposits in that account, which, you know, we want our members to do better. So that’s great and get them in the right account. So, you know, long term that’s more likely to make them stay longer. And, you know, maybe have us be higher in the wallet as they like to say, or as we like to say. But keeping making sure that we’re always taking care of, of the folks that are kind of already in the house. 

 Yeah. As we’re inviting more folks in.

Rick Rappe: 28:17

So you do quite a few customer focused marketing campaigns probably throughout the year to.

Mike Rosenberg: 28:23

If not as many, if not more. Okay. Sure. Yeah. And, and, you know, we were talking about what we know about when we, when we do prospecting.

I mean, we know that much and more about the members that we have. And so making sure that when we’re, when we know what we know, let’s use that to, to make sure that we’re providing them extra value. You know, I mean, we added in like financial counseling services and credit score monitoring and retirement readiness stuff to our digital banking, all of that with, okay, these are going to be great services for our members to be able to use. And make sure that they’re continuing to prosper, you know? So yeah, it’s really important.

Rick Rappe: 29:06

That makes sense. If you had to grow a credit union tomorrow from zero members, what would be some of the first things that you would implement? Oh boy. To grow the business.

Mike Rosenberg: 29:21

Well, back to that data being everywhere kind of thing would be to, to start with really figuring out where all the metrics are going to live and what they’re so, so that you can maybe start today, tomorrow or whatever, having it all in one place. I feel like to some extent that would, you know, outside of not having any members, not having any money, probably that would be kind of a dream is to start from zero of like, here’s how we’re going to build it. You know, here’s the marketing tech stack that we want, right? And go from there as opposed to, well, we’re not changing this.

Rick Rappe: 29:58

So legacy systems to slow you down.

Mike Rosenberg: 30:01

I mean, that would be kind of amazing.

Rick Rappe: 30:03

Yeah.

Mike Rosenberg: 30:04

But on the other side of it.

Rick Rappe: 30:05

I feel like marketing and I are always kind of like butting heads because they marketing always needs more tech tools. And it’s like, wait, wait, wait, wait, we can’t support all this.

Mike Rosenberg: 30:15

Everybody needs more tech tools. So it’s like, yeah, get in line.

Rick Rappe: 30:20

Yeah, yeah. What marketing tactic do you think is underrated right now?

Mike Rosenberg: 30:28

Well, you know, I gotta give a shout out to the direct mail. You know, with our sponsor.

Rick Rappe: 30:34

I appreciate direct mail. I hope it’s productive for you. If it’s not, if it’s not working hard, we can help.

Mike Rosenberg: 30:40

Yeah. I think I mentioned that, you know, especially in the credit union space, we’ve seen we see good, great returns from it all the time. I think that that was it was was a surprise to me coming into the industry. You know, when I heard about how much direct mail we did, I was like, wow, really? And then I saw the stats.

I was like, okay, well, we’re not going to stop that. You know, I’m not going to be the guy, the guy that comes in and cuts the the one that way. And it worked. And you know, as I talked about for acquisition, it’s also a great tool for us. For our current members. 

Again, that that making sure that they know the other products that we have. It amazes me how many times I’ve heard internally, you know, we have a home loans department, how many people, you know, member facing staff are like, yeah, they, they didn’t know we did home loans. Well, okay. So then I go back to, well, how, how, how have we marketing opposition so that they see that. But it’s, it’s one of those things, right? 

You know, people see as one thing and maybe you do some other stuff. So that’s definitely a good channel for us.

Rick Rappe: 31:45

It seems like we all hope that we would have a we build this brand and that consumers remember it and keep it in mind. And they always remember what we’ve tried to teach them. And. But realistically, they don’t really keep it in mind. They, they kind of go with whatever is whatever marketing is flowing at them at that moment.

It’s, it takes their attention away. Yeah it does. I’m sorry. You were saying about the other underrated. I cut you off. 

I think you were still talking about underrated tactics.

Mike Rosenberg: 32:18

Oh, no, I you know, I think the the good one to focus on is that that direct mail piece. You know, to, to know I’d have to know what they’re, what they’re rated to know if they’re, if they’re underrated. I feel like we’re to some extent doing most of them. I don’t know if they’re under, you know, are there.

Rick Rappe: 32:39

Well, it sounds like you’re it sounds like you’ve got a really good data driven approach and you’re working to optimize each channel and make them perform to their peak, peak performance. Right. I think that’s the important part.

Mike Rosenberg: 32:53

Yeah, yeah.

Rick Rappe: 32:56

What excites you most about the future of marketing?

Mike Rosenberg: 33:02

I mean, I think kind of the unknown, you know? Being able to continue to use the data that we have. Being able to, you know, kind of continue to try out new things. You know, as I mentioned when I was telling you about my background, you know, I got into the search marketing when it was like, how do we do that? We don’t know.

It hasn’t been done. There’s, there’s stuff coming with with AI in that capacity. You know, I mean, I don’t, I don’t necessarily think it’s the, the AI search kind of stuff, but it’s going to continue to evolve, you know, and that’s definitely an unknown. I can’t imagine that, you know, your ChatGPT gen AI type stuff, the way that people are finding products and services isn’t going to continue to, to go that route more. But I don’t know, right? 

We didn’t have this a few years ago. And you know, everybody talks about how everything’s is changing rapidly, even more rapidly. So you know that that can be scary and exciting at the same time. So I just, I like figuring out what’s what’s next and keeping a beat on that as much as appropriate too. I think we can also, as I mentioned, you know, we can look at that shiny thing and spend a whole bunch of time on something that may not have the impact, but knowing that it’s there and, you know, being prepared and starting to test on it, I think is, is an exciting place for us to go.

Rick Rappe: 34:34

Yeah, we, we definitely have to stay on the cutting edge. But the, we see a lot of clients that chase the latest, greatest sort of new hack. And then everybody else does the same thing. And every, you know, it creates this really crowded space after everybody gets there. And so, you know, that’s it’s an interesting dynamic.

You want to be on the cutting edge, but then not late to the party and not not over the followers.

Mike Rosenberg: 35:03

I think is the term that some use.

Rick Rappe: 35:05

Yeah. Right, right. If someone wants to build a career like yours and be successful as a marketing leader, what advice would you give to them?

Mike Rosenberg: 35:21

Keep learning. I think is, is, is really a big piece of it. I think that, you know, I was fortunate to get involved with like a marketing trade association relatively early in my career and, you know, join the board and then went on to be the president and get involved in that group of people. You know, the organization put on monthly educational events in a yearly conference. And, you know, the content that I got out of that was great.

But really the the talking with peers and meeting new people at those kind of events and understanding, you know, hearing what they’re working on and what they’re doing and continuing to be curious. It’s super easy to find. You know, it’s way easier now than it was ten, 15, 20 years ago to find information about a topic and, you know, go watch a video or ask your buddy Chad what’s going on here. You know, trust, but verify or actually probably don’t even trust yet. Definitely verify. 

But yeah, just just stay, stay thirsty with knowledge. I think that’s the, that’s the biggest thing. And I think that is the thing that propels people in their careers. You know, we talked about that next new shiny thing is you don’t necessarily have to be doing it, but understanding what’s going on. So that being the person who maybe says, hey, what about what if we try this, right? 

And then having the gumption to be the one who not? How about you guys go try this? But how about we or can I or, you know, we should all lead us in trying this new thing. I think that’s something that, you know, if you want to build a career and be successful in anything is just staying curious.

Rick Rappe: 36:57

Yeah. Open mindedness. That’s great.

Mike Rosenberg: 37:00

Yeah.

Rick Rappe: 37:01

Well, boy, it’s been a pleasure to talk to you today. And thank you for being so open and sharing your experience and your expertise. I really appreciate it. If people want to get ahold of you, what’s the best way for them to find you?

Mike Rosenberg: 37:14

Probably LinkedIn. Okay. Yeah. Mike Rosenberg on LinkedIn, there’s probably a few of them, but you can probably find me. That’s the best.

Yeah.

Rick Rappe: 37:26

Well, thank you again, Mike. I really appreciate it. And we’ll talk to you again soon.

Mike Rosenberg: 37:30

Absolutely. Thanks, Rick.

Outro: 37:32

That’s a wrap for this episode of Response Drivers. Thanks for tuning in. If you found today’s insights valuable, make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you’re enjoying the show, we’d love it if you left a review. Got a question or a topic you’d like us to cover? Just drop us a message at responsedrivers@rpmdm.com. Until next time, keep driving response and making your marketing work smarter.